Could be but probably just a mistake. At any rate if the order filling logic worked the way it should any of the hundreds of full regional buy orders for 755+ million would have covered it.
The system works fine, it's a standard brokerage system. What exactly would you want it to do, handhold you though selling so you can't possibly make a mistake? The trading system in eve is already too low risk for the amount of reward it gives.
Not sure what context you assume by "standard brokerage system", but i don't see any reason why anyone would not want to sell to the highest "available" buy orders. Those errors only exist because of the crappy way EvE handles and displays numerical and decimal numbers. I always scratch my head if i enter "100", than see "100,00" and if i want to edit again the cursor is at "100,00_<---".
As example take the old and new contract system, they did a lot of work to better display what is actually going on. So while i don't see CCP changing the system any time soon, i see potential to improve the system.
I personally don't care much about this particular "problem", since the warning box does its job most of the time for me. If i had a wish on the market system, i would add a way higher fee on changing a order. Similar to what they did on job install cost, so i would not prevent the 0,01isk war, but simply make this brainless activity to have some form of consideration. So u should still be able to change your orders quickly, but depending on the value the fee should scale and be something u need to consider at some point.
Show us one, just one, major brokerage system that handles order filling the way Eve does. You can't because standard brokerage systems don't work like that.
@Unknown
Agreed, I too would like it if it cost more to modify order prices. I'd have no problem paying broker fees on the full new price (not just the difference between old and new price).
"Not sure what context you assume by "standard brokerage system", but I don't see any reason why anyone would not want to sell to the highest "available" buy orders." When you place an order onto the system, you tell it how much you want to pay or want to receive. If an order matches that, you get what you want. It doesn't work out if that's the best deal for you, since that's not what it;s there for, it facilitates your trade, nothing more. A "normal" broker would tend to eat the difference themselves, but as EVEs broker is NPC driven that would introduce a large isk sink into the economy, so the excess drops into the pre-existing order.
Those errors exist because some people are in too much of a hurry to double check their figures, and those people should lose out for their mistakes. If everyone was protected from any possible error, then they would be shielded from too much risk.
And while I agree fees should be massively increased (across the board, not just on updates), that would be a large isk sink which would negatively affect the economy down the line.
"Show us one, just one, major brokerage system that handles order filling the way Eve does." Pretty much any brokerage firm. Go to a broker and tell him you want to sell a particular product for $100 while there's a buyer who will pay $1000. You won't see that other $900. The job of the system is to fulfil your wants as you state them. If you mess up and undervalue something, that's your loss.
Lucas that's a load of crap. No reputable broker will rip off clients that way. They wouldn't be in business for very long if they did and they'd be facing lawsuits they'd almost certainly lose.
But that's beside the point. The topic isn't broker ethics, it's how a "standard brokerage system" works.
The buyer says I want to buy 100 units and I'm willing to pay up to $100.00 per unit. The system then fills as much of your order as it can from sell orders at 100.00 per unit or less with you paying the seller's price, not your maximum. Any remaining volume goes up as a buy order at $100.00 per unit.
That's how a "standard brokerage system" handles filling orders.
"When you deal with a broker you expect them to tell you the honest truth about what you might be investing in. When a broker misrepresents or omits a material fact (an important fact) they could be held liable for misrepresentation or omission. The reason for this is because a broker has a duty to fairly disclose all of the risks associated with an investment."
"A fiduciary duty is a requirement that your stock broker place your interests over their own. This doesn't mean a stock broker should fling themselves in front of a car for you, rather it means that the stock broker should make the best orders for your particular needs, not the firm's best interest. Many times a breach of fiduciary duty is tied to churning."
Those are stock brokers. Slightly different to if you are interacting with a goods broker for a company. Whatever price you set is the price they will go after, and if they can get a better deal, the markup is their profit. If, like in this case, they are brokering both sides of the deal, they may choose to give the existing purchase order the good deal and give you what you asked for, taking only their standard fee. They might warn you by saying "mate, this is a really low price to sell this, are you sure?" much like EVE does, but if you say "Yep, I'm sure" then off they will go... Just like EVE does.
At the end of the day, whatever price you pop into that box in EVE, that's the price you'll get, so if you say "I want to sell a plex for 5 million" you will get your 5 million. That's what you asked for, so that's what you got. The system is not "braindead" because it doesn't shield you from being an idiot.
I'm beginning to understand why most blogs just delete your comments. They're shielding their readers from you.
We're not dealing with shady used car salesmen in an unregulated system. We're dealing with brokers in a system which according to lore is regulated and monitored by Secure Commerce Commission (a division of Concord).
Maybe you should learn how to present your point of view without resorting to childish retorts of "I'm right because I say so and you're stupid if you disagree".
Btw on a side-note here is a real problem i frequently encounter, that relates to the way the system works.
I have a large stock and want to directly use buy orders, now to get the max. profit i need to manually do this for every single buy order volume, which is often 50+ of single items.
1) right click item to sell 2) select sell from list 3) check price 4) hit enter
repeat, but at some point eve will tell u "U need to wait xy seconds, before u can continue". This for once results in so many unneeded clicks and quite often i will accidentally fill the highest "lowball" order, simply because after clicking 50 orders the muscle memory kicks in.
Here is what i want the system to-do, with just a few clicks. "Sell all my stock to buy orders, until the price is lower than xy amount".
So thats what gets me mad most of the time and this stupid "sell timer", that kicks in after u fulfilled a few orders.
If they'd fix the system to work the way it should then you could just enter the highest price you're willing to pay. The system would automatically fill your order from buy orders with the same or higher price - at the the buy order price - until either your order is completely filled or all remaining buy orders are lower priced. At that point the rest of your order would be listed as a sell order at your price.
Agree this system needs more love, but it's not as bad as you describe it. Here is possible scenario that happend: Someone has put buy order with region range, and seller was in place in range of this order, but away from trade hub. While choosing sell, he got best offer for his position... and bang he got 5.7mil. It was saller fault not to veryfi what and for how much is he selling.
If anyone ask me, i would give more priority to to get this history with nice candlestick chart, then fixing something that works fine ( but not perfect :D )
Its not Jita, its The Forge. Can be RMT related.
ReplyDeleteCould be but probably just a mistake. At any rate if the order filling logic worked the way it should any of the hundreds of full regional buy orders for 755+ million would have covered it.
DeleteThe system works fine, it's a standard brokerage system. What exactly would you want it to do, handhold you though selling so you can't possibly make a mistake? The trading system in eve is already too low risk for the amount of reward it gives.
ReplyDeleteNot sure what context you assume by "standard brokerage system", but i don't see any reason why anyone would not want to sell to the highest "available" buy orders. Those errors only exist because of the crappy way EvE handles and displays numerical and decimal numbers. I always scratch my head if i enter "100", than see "100,00" and if i want to edit again the cursor is at "100,00_<---".
DeleteAs example take the old and new contract system, they did a lot of work to better display what is actually going on. So while i don't see CCP changing the system any time soon, i see potential to improve the system.
I personally don't care much about this particular "problem", since the warning box does its job most of the time for me.
If i had a wish on the market system, i would add a way higher fee on changing a order. Similar to what they did on job install cost, so i would not prevent the 0,01isk war, but simply make this brainless activity to have some form of consideration. So u should still be able to change your orders quickly, but depending on the value the fee should scale and be something u need to consider at some point.
@Lucas
DeleteShow us one, just one, major brokerage system that handles order filling the way Eve does. You can't because standard brokerage systems don't work like that.
@Unknown
Agreed, I too would like it if it cost more to modify order prices. I'd have no problem paying broker fees on the full new price (not just the difference between old and new price).
"Not sure what context you assume by "standard brokerage system", but I don't see any reason why anyone would not want to sell to the highest "available" buy orders."
DeleteWhen you place an order onto the system, you tell it how much you want to pay or want to receive. If an order matches that, you get what you want. It doesn't work out if that's the best deal for you, since that's not what it;s there for, it facilitates your trade, nothing more. A "normal" broker would tend to eat the difference themselves, but as EVEs broker is NPC driven that would introduce a large isk sink into the economy, so the excess drops into the pre-existing order.
Those errors exist because some people are in too much of a hurry to double check their figures, and those people should lose out for their mistakes. If everyone was protected from any possible error, then they would be shielded from too much risk.
And while I agree fees should be massively increased (across the board, not just on updates), that would be a large isk sink which would negatively affect the economy down the line.
"Show us one, just one, major brokerage system that handles order filling the way Eve does."
Pretty much any brokerage firm. Go to a broker and tell him you want to sell a particular product for $100 while there's a buyer who will pay $1000. You won't see that other $900. The job of the system is to fulfil your wants as you state them. If you mess up and undervalue something, that's your loss.
Lucas that's a load of crap. No reputable broker will rip off clients that way. They wouldn't be in business for very long if they did and they'd be facing lawsuits they'd almost certainly lose.
DeleteBut that's beside the point. The topic isn't broker ethics, it's how a "standard brokerage system" works.
The buyer says I want to buy 100 units and I'm willing to pay up to $100.00 per unit. The system then fills as much of your order as it can from sell orders at 100.00 per unit or less with you paying the seller's price, not your maximum. Any remaining volume goes up as a buy order at $100.00 per unit.
That's how a "standard brokerage system" handles filling orders.
http://resources.lawinfo.com/personal-injury/stock-broker-fraud/what-is-a-misrepresentation-or-omission.html
Delete"When you deal with a broker you expect them to tell you the honest truth about what you might be investing in. When a broker misrepresents or omits a material fact (an important fact) they could be held liable for misrepresentation or omission. The reason for this is because a broker has a duty to fairly disclose all of the risks associated with an investment."
http://resources.lawinfo.com/personal-injury/stock-broker-fraud/what-is-a-breach-of-fiduciary-duty.html
"A fiduciary duty is a requirement that your stock broker place your interests over their own. This doesn't mean a stock broker should fling themselves in front of a car for you, rather it means that the stock broker should make the best orders for your particular needs, not the firm's best interest. Many times a breach of fiduciary duty is tied to churning."
Those are stock brokers. Slightly different to if you are interacting with a goods broker for a company. Whatever price you set is the price they will go after, and if they can get a better deal, the markup is their profit. If, like in this case, they are brokering both sides of the deal, they may choose to give the existing purchase order the good deal and give you what you asked for, taking only their standard fee. They might warn you by saying "mate, this is a really low price to sell this, are you sure?" much like EVE does, but if you say "Yep, I'm sure" then off they will go... Just like EVE does.
DeleteAt the end of the day, whatever price you pop into that box in EVE, that's the price you'll get, so if you say "I want to sell a plex for 5 million" you will get your 5 million. That's what you asked for, so that's what you got. The system is not "braindead" because it doesn't shield you from being an idiot.
I'm beginning to understand why most blogs just delete your comments. They're shielding their readers from you.
DeleteWe're not dealing with shady used car salesmen in an unregulated system. We're dealing with brokers in a system which according to lore is regulated and monitored by Secure Commerce Commission (a division of Concord).
Lol, did you delete my posts because you can't stand being wrong?
DeleteMaybe you should learn how to present your point of view without resorting to childish retorts of "I'm right because I say so and you're stupid if you disagree".
DeleteSince someone doesn't seem to know when to shut up and stop talking crap, it's time to find out how well blogger's spam filter works.
DeleteBtw on a side-note here is a real problem i frequently encounter, that relates to the way the system works.
ReplyDeleteI have a large stock and want to directly use buy orders, now to get the max. profit i need to manually do this for every single buy order volume, which is often 50+ of single items.
1) right click item to sell
2) select sell from list
3) check price
4) hit enter
repeat, but at some point eve will tell u "U need to wait xy seconds, before u can continue". This for once results in so many unneeded clicks and quite often i will accidentally fill the highest "lowball" order, simply because after clicking 50 orders the muscle memory kicks in.
Here is what i want the system to-do, with just a few clicks. "Sell all my stock to buy orders, until the price is lower than xy amount".
So thats what gets me mad most of the time and this stupid "sell timer", that kicks in after u fulfilled a few orders.
Yeah, it's a PITA.
DeleteIf they'd fix the system to work the way it should then you could just enter the highest price you're willing to pay. The system would automatically fill your order from buy orders with the same or higher price - at the the buy order price - until either your order is completely filled or all remaining buy orders are lower priced. At that point the rest of your order would be listed as a sell order at your price.
That guy is the pariah of Eve blog comments. Good riddance.
ReplyDeleteAgree this system needs more love, but it's not as bad as you describe it.
ReplyDeleteHere is possible scenario that happend:
Someone has put buy order with region range, and seller was in place in range of this order, but away from trade hub. While choosing sell, he got best offer for his position... and bang he got 5.7mil.
It was saller fault not to veryfi what and for how much is he selling.
If anyone ask me, i would give more priority to to get this history with nice candlestick chart, then fixing something that works fine ( but not perfect :D )