Eve isn't a PvP game, it's a tycoon simulator, nearly everything in Eve is all about the ISK. Including most of the so-called PvP.
The self-proclaimed "elite PvPers" aren't PvPers, they're gank farmers who measure their worth in ISK. It's not about who you killed, what he was flying or how good he was, it's all about the ISK value in the kill-mail. Just another farmer.
Eve's so-called PvPers are just bullies preying on the weak. They're like grade school bullies. Grade school bullies don't fight, they just hang out (often in packs) looking for smaller kids (preferably alone) they can beat up easily. Cowards looking not for fights (a real fight is the last thing they want) but for easy prey that can't fight back effectively. Eve players aren't any different, they don't PvP, they camp gates and stations (usually in gangs) looking for someone they can easily beat.
Piracy in Eve is the big kid stealing the little kid's lunch because he knows the little kid can't do anything about it.
You aren't elite PvPers. You aren't elite ANYTHING. You're pathetic little children, cowardly bullies stealing candy from smaller, younger and weaker children.
I will grant that some low-sec and WH dwellers do engage in true PvP, however they're a very small minority. The vast majority of Eve players who call themselves PvPers are really nothing more than risk averse gank farmers and bullies preying on the weak.
While some of your points are quite right your basic premise is false. The very behavior you are describing is by definition PvP it might be unfair in many cases rigged and "preying on the weak" but in the end it is human beings using the game in a contest of skill.
ReplyDeleteThat skill in most cases is not "leet PvP gaming skill" like in most shooters for example, but knowledge of the game and its mechanics and knowledge of behavior patterns - in essence meta game stuff.
The self proclaimed elite PvPers fall for exactly the same error in most cases (which is why they get owned so often when someone appears who is really good at the metagame).
In this game it matters a lot less how good you perform in the engagement itself as it matters how good you are in creating engagements that favor you.
In the end EvE is a PvP-game but those who call themselfes PvPers in EvE are often ... well i think you described it sufficently.
PS.: on the matter of killboardstats and their value http://greedygoblin.blogspot.hu/2013/03/elite-pvp-cormorant-kills-3-taloses.html
I fly in nullsec and I've lost tons of ships. We have the very good fortune of having ballsy FCs and ballsy opponents and management that don't try to put the brakes on the fun. I realise that isn't always the case but to categorise nullsec as a bunch of docked up people waiting for the moon goo to mount up would be inaccurate.
ReplyDeleteThere's a lot of T1 Cruiser and Destroyer gangs in Delve at the moment. It's not unusual to go out for a fight and find multiple roving gangs within 5 jumps of NOL.
Several comments including one of my own have been deleted.
ReplyDeleteThis was done because a particular commenter took a small part of my comment (a somewhat flippant real life reference) completely out of context and used it to support a series of strawman arguments that completely misrepresented what I'm saying.
Most Eve players are indeed risk averse. But does the definition of PvP include "fair"?
ReplyDeleteI never actually used the word "fair" and I don't even care if PvP is fair or not. I'd just like to see more real PvP and less of the bottom feeder garbage that passes for PvP in Eve now.
DeleteIt's disappointing there's so very little PvP in a game that's billed as a harsh PvP game. No wonder so many new players don't stay long, they're expecting PvP but all they find are gankers, griefers and bullies preying on the weak.
How do you define real PVP? Taking risks? There are people who do that but they are indeed a minority, for obvious reasons: risky PVP is costly and often frustrating. Others follow the easier route and do everything to minimise losses.
DeleteAlso, I think the experience of being ganked, griefed and bullied meets the definition of harsh.
For such an objective blog, there is a substantial amount of unrestrained emotion in this and lack of cohesive logic. For example, "Just another farmer" indicates an indignation towards a ganker. In this sense you're making them generic, unimaginative, and general in every case. You've stripped their individuality and ultimately their importance.
ReplyDeleteThis is the first step of your campaign. The second step you took was using the phrase "so-called," as if the accepted definition of a PVPer is fundamentally flawed. Third, you belittle anyone who destroys other ships as grade school bullies. Finally, your capstone argument is the logic fallacy No True Scottsman. If anyone in EVE was a true PVPer, they would never attack someone without the means to fight back and defend themselves. The problem with this argument is that you put logic and sound judgment in attacking those stronger, better equipped, and better prepared than you as if these elements create a justified challenge.
I would venture to say that EVE PVP is more a game of preparation than it is execution. Creating an environment where you are the assured victor and your foe is inevitably defeated should be the only goal. This point becomes ever more obvious when you reverse the circumstances of the "bully" of which so emotionally detest and the smaller, weaker kids they prey on.
If I'm flying a ship with barely the skills to fly it, using PvE modules (no scram/web or even a prop), and engage a superior ship with a superior pilot with superior fitting, then by your definition I'm PVPing. By failing to set the stage for victory, I have created an unimaginably difficult situation where triumph is all but an impossibility. Perhaps you enjoy fighting windmills, but I for one revel in the fact that my battle took place long before the ships landed on grid. The battle waged on the forums gleaning information on proper fits and tactics; information on the opponent, his habits, possible fits and response times of his friends or corporation members.
No one forced the smaller kids to dawn a sheep's clothing. No one forced them to fly ships incapable of fighting. No one forced them to fly in space they are not prepared for. You think weakness is a virtue; worthy of honorable defense. The world is not this way. Neither is EVE.
What if someone does true pvp, but calls himself an elite pvpler?
ReplyDeleteThen he's a pvper at least. Whether he's elite or not really isn't his call. :)
DeleteYou know how to avoid fights, most players that are not completely stupid knows how to avoid fights too. The first component of any gang or fleet is after all, invulnerable covops scouts that enables them to avoid 95% of undesirable fights.
ReplyDeleteIn non-carebear space, the weak are quickly drive off and very quickly only alert player well versed in escape mechanisms remain. In stretches of lowsec and npc nullsec fights, as well as rvb, pvp are "consensual" by both sides and as such must be agreed upon by both sides as acceptably balanced. This is where the term "frenemey" comes from, those people you fight consistently but is not actually on bad terms with, and would group up to fight other things if the situation calls for it.
In some sense they are self handicapped in not overloading meta-game advantages to win, but in terms of technical skill they can be pretty damn good.