Tuesday 23 September 2014

Grinding Jita Broker Fees Down

As promised in yesterday's post here's a followup post detailing how I plan on grinding standings for better broker fees on Jita.

With 0 standings I currently pay a total of 2.25% in taxes and fees (0.75% tax + 2 x 0.75% broker fee) to buy and sell every item I deal in. Taxes are already as low as they can get so the only way to lower my costs is to grind standings for lower broker fees.

Here's a link to a handy Broker Fees Chart

As can be seen in the above chart Faction Standing has a greater effect on broker fees than corporation standing.

I'd like to get total costs (taxes and fees) down to 1.5% or less. I can't lower taxes any further than 0.75% so that just leaves broker fees. Getting broker fees down to 0.55 (before skills modification) or better will do it.

With Broker Relations V that'd be 0.55 x 0.75 = 0.4125% saving me 0.75 - 0.4125 =  0.3375% on every broker fee. Since I pay the Broker Fee twice (once for the buy order and once for the sell order) that would save me a total of 2 x 0.3375 = 0.675% on every item I buy and resell.

Total cost to buy and sell an item would then be 0.75 (tax on the sale) + 0.675 (broker fees) = 1.425% or 0.825% lower than the 2.25% it costs me now with 0 standings.

On Jita 4-4 Caldari Navy Assembly Plant, the standings required to lower broker fees are the Caldari State faction and the Caldari Navy corporation.

To meet my goal of a before skills fee of 0.55 or less I'll need Caldari State at 3 and Caldari Navy at 8. That should be fairly easy to do. If I can get Caldari State 6, the before skills broker fee would be 0.40 modified by Broker Relations to 0.30 for a total cost of 1.35% in taxes and fees, saving me 0.90% and giving me increased profits, especially on low margin items.

Social skills

Several social skills are useful for the standings grind but there's only one that really matters.

Social - The only skill that really matters. Social gives 5% additional standing on every standing gain. It's applied at the time the gain is made and has no effect on prior gains. Training Social all the way to V before doing anything else means the standings grind will go faster (25% faster than without Social and 5% faster than with Social IV).

Connections - Not absolutely necessary since it has no effect on base standings but still handy to have as it modifies base standings allowing access to better agents sooner. The sooner you can talk to higher level agents the faster the grind will go.

Diplomacy - 4% Modifier per level to effective standing towards hostile Agents. Not really necessary but all that Caldari faction means you get derived negative standing with the opposing Gallente and Minmatar factions and their corporations. Diplomacy helps to alleviate that.

Distribution Connections - A moderately expensive book that does nothing to help with standings gains but does give 5% more Loyalty Points per mission. Not at all necessary but what the hey, might as well train it to IV and earn 20% extra LP while grinding.

Negotiation - Again not at all necessary but might as well train it to IV for 20% extra pay too.

The Plan

- Caldari State Standings -

1. Train Social V before doing anything else to maximize standings gains and finish the grind sooner.

2. Start training Connections IV. No need to wait for it to finish since it just modifies base standings for things like agent access and unlike Social has no effect whatsoever on actual standings gains.

3. Do the Caldari Data Center missions. I can buy the necessary Guristas tags (important distinction, that's just plain Guristas, not Dread Guristas) anytime as long as I don't trade any in until after training Social V.

Ahtulaima Data Center

Tillen Matsu and Hosiwo Onima: Courier missions.
Vaktan Sido: x3 Guristas Copper Tag.

Saikanen Data Center

Autaris Pia and Nakkito Ihadechi: Courier missions.
Rokuza Taman: x3 Guristas Copper Tag.

Kamokor Data Center

Korhonomi Oti and Pomari Maara: Courier missions.
Peeta Waikon: x3 Guristas Copper Tag.
Ollen Alulama: x20 Guristas Bronze Tag.
Ichmari Obesa: x20 Guristas Silver Tag.
Kui Hisken: x20 Guristas Brass Tag.
Tojawara Saziras: x20 Guristas Palladium Tag.
Oko Alo: x20 Guristas Gold Tag.
Isu Jokaga: x20 Guristas Electrum Tag.
Ruupas Vonni: x20 Guristas Crystal Tag.
Ozunoa Poskat: x20 Guristas Platinum Tag.
Kanouchi Hisama: x20 Guristas Diamond Tag.

Completing all of the Caldari Data Center missions requires 9 Guristas Copper Tags and 20 of each other tag.

See how high base unmodified standings are at this point. I haven't bothered figuring it out but I'm expecting somewhere between 2 and 3. Hopeful Connections IV will modify base standings enough to access the agents in order but I might have to grind some Distribution missions to help with that.

4. Maybe (strike that) for sure do the Amarr Data Center missions too. Since the Amarr are allies of the Caldari their missions give some Caldari standing too. If I'm interpreting the numbers right (more Amarr missions + larger bonuses and assuming I get half as much Caldari standing) it looks like Amarr DC missions should be worth nearly as much Caldari State standing as Caldari DC missions. I've been told derived standings cap at 7.0 so if I'll need to do Amarr missions while Caldari State standing is still well under 7.0.

5. Do distribution missions for Caldari agents like the so-called Circle Agents. Most distribution missions don't require combat and can be done while AFK.

6. Maybe do the Sisters of Eve epic arc. Though the SoE epic arc does require combat, it grants a lot of faction too and might be worth bringing a dps character along to help with it.

Grind away until Caldari State standings are high enough to make me happy. 8 would be awesome, 6 would be nice but I probably won't have the stomach for grinding that much. I would like to get at least 5 but I have a hunch I'll wind up settling for 3 or 4.

- Caldari Navy Standings -

This part is easy. Since corporation standings can be shared with anyone in fleet, I'll probably just pay a standings grinding service to do it for me. Besides paying a fee, about all I'll have to do is log in, fleet up with the grinder and go AFK.

The service I'm considering using for this is TSCA (The Standings Correction Agency). They charge 2.75 billion for 0 to 8 standing with any corporation. They have a very good reputation with anecdotal evidence suggesting they can get 0-8 done in as little as just 1 week

A bit expensive to be sure but it's a one time (per character) sunk cost I can easily afford. I've lost more than that on a typo.

Progress to date

I started buying Guristas tags with buy orders a few days ago and already have enough to complete several of the missions including the first ones.

I have about 3 days left to finish training Social V before I can start turning tags in.

I've also trained Connections III, Distribution Connections III, Negotiation III, and will train all of them to IV after the all important Social V is done.


  1. The SOE epic arc only takes me 4 to 6 hours to do on two toons every three months, maybe a bit more once I add the third toon. this includes salvaging all the combat sites because I am a bit ocd with that. One toon runs a noctis and the other runs a frig special Gila (double scan res scripted sebo rlmls etc) added bonus you can usually find some players in suspect flagged frigs trying to bait noobs on the undocks of the stations you hit. The gila loves these for a snack. and the double sebo means they rarely see it coming.

    Good luck with the standings grind. I didn't know that there were places that actually did standings grinds for isk. I usually just grind my own.

  2. I forgot about Minmatar and Gallente going negative as Caldari and Amarr standings go up. Added the Diplomacy skill to the original post because it helps with that.

  3. Did all but the last 3 Caldari Data Center missions today. Waiting on Connections IV to access the last 3 (modified standings are just 0.12 short with Connections III).

    So far this is working out a lot better than I expected. It hardly takes any time to do the missions. I spent close to an hour doing them but I was really taking my time, probably could have done them in under 10 minutes.

    Also noticed that derived standing with Amarr seems to be exactly half the Caldari standing. Assuming the opposite is true then doing the Amarr Data Center missions too is definitely worth it! Especially since the Amarr missions seem to give more standing. Between the two of them I should wind up with somewhere around 3.5 to 4 standing with both factions without doing anything else.

  4. The topic is old, but is it worth to pay for standing or rise it yourself? If the broker fees is 2,25 %. It means that from 1 bill you should pay only 22,5 mills. And from every 10 bills, 225 mills. And from 100 bills, 2,25 bills of fees. If you pay 2,8 bills for the service, it's means that you should have at least operations or turnover at least 100 bills per month or it's not worth an effort.

    1. If this is the only trade alt in Jita they're going to use, then chances are they'll be spending 100bil+ on it at some point. Also, reduced broker fees mean they can pass on the savings to their corp/alliance, by buying fuel and ammo using corporation funds, then donating this to their alliance/corporation.

    2. That's right, it's not worth doing for the average, or even moderately wealthy player, but for a rich player doing high volume, low margin business, it's very worthwhile. It can easily double or more your monthly profits, buying and selling huge quantities of items at prices that aren't profitable for most players.

      At the time I wrote this my net worth was somewhere around 500 billion with turnover well over 100 billion a month. When I quit playing Eve I was worth about 1 trillion.

    3. Such a shame all that trillion ISK just sitting there . . .
      We should talk.